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From Now On - by twister10

ZOMG, RELAX.

Oh, right, that's why I tend to avoid unfinished fandoms these days: the snap declarations, apropos of nothing, that a show has "jumped the shark."

Now, it's entirely possible that I am simply too trusting, but - perhaps we should reserve our judgment for a bit, hm?



Has anyone considered the religious implications of Roslin's apparent remission? Our Madame President rallied support among the people using a prophecy that spoke of a dying leader. If she is no longer dying, was Roslin wrong to identify herself as that leader in the first place? Is the prophecy itself wrong? How are the religious in the fleet going to react to the news of Roslin's recovery? Will they feel betrayed and misled?



I don't know whether to be amused by or irritated with our premature doom-sayers. When B5 was just getting off the ground, people told JMS to get rid of "the guy with the stupid hair." Five years later, they certainly weren't saying that about Londo anymore. Likewise, BSG is a relatively young serial. We are looking at individual jigsaw puzzle pieces here - not the full plan. And while it's fun to scrutinize each individual piece and float speculations about the future, saying that the show has been "ruined" by this, that, or the other thing sounds like a rather silly final judgment on a work that's not even done.

I'll reiterate: RELAX. Please. At least until a fuller picture is in view and we can truly say that RDM has screwed it up. Believe me, if that day comes, I will gleefully take things apart with the rest of you (see also: my B5 meta).
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I couldn't agree with you more. Maybe it's because we're fans of B5 that we understand that things like this are more than they appear to be.

Warning, SPOILERS in comment!!

What, folks are complaining?

Good fucking grief!

Has anyone looked at the ethical issues, and the way this can blow up when word gets out?

Let's see:
1. Hybrid-baby-cylon blood can cure cancer
2. We have a pregnant cylon on board
3. Using her as a medicine factory is way more severe than cloning or stem cell research
4. What happens when word gets out to the fleet?

and let's not forget what kind of long-term effect that blood might have on Roslyn -- who knows how this is going to change things further down the line. The whole thing opens up so many fascinating possibilities (not to mention the religious one that you brought up!) that I personally can't wait to see how they go with it!

Re: Warning, SPOILERS in comment!!

Has anyone looked at the ethical issues, and the way this can blow up when word gets out?

Apparently not - even though Doc Cottle likely foreshadows the reaction of the fleet when he expresses his distaste for Baltar's treatment and calls it "unnatural." I read that as a big, honkin' hint of RDM's intentions for the future, but I've been well and truly trained. *g*

Re: Warning, SPOILERS in comment!!

I also think that we saw another big, honkin' hint when we saw "The Farm", but few people are putting two and two together yet. How do we defeat the enemy if we become the enemy?

Me, I'm loving the recent stretch of episodes -- the illustration of just how far humans are willing to go in desperate situations, and exactly where that last step before you lose your humanity lies. It's fascinating, and I am so happy that they don't have standards and practices looking closer at what they're doing. I can't imagine half of this stuff getting onto a network show!

Re: Battle Plan B

How do we defeat the enemy if we become the enemy?

Maybe that's how the enemy defeats us.

Re: Battle Plan B

I've been very surprised (and happy!) about the things they're doing, but I'd be REALLY amazed if they were daring enough to take that step! *thinks it's very cool*

Excellent point

Has anyone considered the religious implications of Roslin's apparent remission? Our Madame President rallied support among the people using a prophecy that spoke of a dying leader. If she is no longer dying, was Roslin wrong to identify herself as that leader in the first place? Is the prophecy itself wrong? How are the religious in the fleet going to react to the news of Roslin's recovery? Will they feel betrayed and misled?

The next sound you hear will be florastuart squeeing loudly and going fan-girl all over you.

(No time this am, but just to point out that religious leaders have gotten around this sort of thing before.)

- hg
Has anyone considered the religious implications of Roslin's apparent remission? Our Madame President rallied support among the people using a prophecy that spoke of a dying leader. If she is no longer dying, was Roslin wrong to identify herself as that leader in the first place? Is the prophecy itself wrong? How are the religious in the fleet going to react to the news of Roslin's recovery? Will they feel betrayed and misled?

*squees loudly* *fangirls* YES!

And this could be a very bad thing for Roslin, both personally and politically. She believed in this prophecy - Elosha, someone she considered a good friend, died for it. She caused the fleet to split up and inspired mutiny among part of Galactica's crew to fulfill what she thought was her destiny. And I'm hoping we get to see some major emotional fallout from this, once she gets over being surprised and happy she's still alive. It will be interesting to see how this affects her faith - both in her gods, and in her own ability to do her job.

Not only that, but there's an election coming up pretty soon. She got a lot of support after the coup from the civilians because she claimed to be a prophet. I'm sure a lot of people are going to feel she lied to them - and Zarek's going to have a field day with this, I'm sure.

Roslin's religious mission hasn't gotten a lot of screen time lately, but I'm guessing it's going to be a big issue for her soon. This is BSG - and whenever it looks like things are getting better for our heroes, it's probably about to get a lot worse.
I don't really have anything to add to that except: EEE! YES! *g* *fangirls you back*
Who is to say she's the leader spoken of in the prophecy? We don't see Adama getting a regular physical. Roslin's gonna get flak for identifying herself as that leader though. My prediction, Zarek wins the election starts screwing everything up then eventually bites the dust letting his VP, who'll be more stable, take over.

Odds of me being right: absolutely none.
Who is to say she's the leader spoken of in the prophecy?

Exactly. Roslin has declared herself to be so, but that doesn't make it true.

Roslin's gonna get flak for identifying herself as that leader though.

Precisely - but weirdly, much of fandom seems to be incapable of seeing this potential.
Did anyone notice that Adama excluded himself when he said, "Those who believe in the power of prayer, pray. While those who do not will join me...".

I think he's atheistic or agnostic at best.

BTW... did they reveal who wrote the "there are 12 cylon models" note yet? Or is my memory playing tricks on me? Also, will there be a Count Iblis? The gods of Kobol seem to have existed alngside humans. It seems to me like they'll eventually introduce the higher being back to the show with them being the gods of Kobol. Obviously the humans didn't leave Kobol becuase of an evironmental collapse. There's a lot of questions and I hope RDM starts answering them in season 3.
Also there's always a retard contingent in every fandom. There are some people who are absolutely sure that some characters who have 30-40 years of back history will be revealed to be cylon agents despite it being firmly established that human cylons only started infiltrating about 2-3 years ago.
and one more post before heading to sleep.

Elosha said: "She(Pythia) also wrote that the new leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land"

Didn't say she'd die from the disease now did she? ;)
I'm not hanging out in any BSG fandoms right now, but am I right to guess that fans are accusing the show of jumping the shark because Roslin is alive, and because of the way in which the cancer was got rid of?

If so, hmmm. I can see claiming this (and in fact I thought the introduction of this MacGuffin could have been a bit more subtle, maybe something we'd seen develop for several episodes), and yet I never really believed that the character would be allowed to die. Which meant some sort of miracle cure, which I had assumed would be Cylon in origin - would it have been any less problematic to have the Lords of Kobol magically remove the tumor?

I guess I'm just too pleased that Roslin's out of the woods to care how the writers did it - as the TWoP recapper put it, "I don't care if she runs into Gina in the corridor and gets shot only in the cancer".
am I right to guess that fans are accusing the show of jumping the shark because Roslin is alive, and because of the way in which the cancer was got rid of?

Yep. I think many in the fandom were deeply wedded to the idea that Roslin would die early, leaving a power vacuum that Zarek and Baltar - bad and worse - would jockey to fill. Which would have been an intriguing - and distressing - scenario, certainly, but the idea doesn't justify tunnel vision. In the end, I think florastuart is right - if Roslin had died now, she would've died a martyr. Her being alive, on the other hand, throws the prophecy - and the purpose to which she's clung all this time - into serious doubt. And this has the potential to be both personally and, with an election on the horizon, politically disasterous. Just because everyone's pet speculation has been killed doesn't mean RDM won't go in another direction that is equally intriguing. Wait and see.

Exactly

Wait and see.

Dude. Do I have to get out my "and who knows? Maybe the horse will learn to sing!" story again?

Three freaking fandoms in a *row*, I tell you, and it's always the same thing.

- hg

Re: Exactly

I have not heard this story. Do tell! *g*

Re: Exactly

*sigh*

Once upon a time there was kingdom with a king who was known for his lack of a sense of humor. In this kingdom there was a boasting man whose mouth often ran ahead of his brain.

One day, while in his cups, the boasting man claimed that as fine as the horse of the king was, it was not half the horse it would be if the horse belonged to the boasting man. In fact, said slurred the boasting man, if *he* had that horse, the horse would not only be able to dance but to sing, inside of a year.

Unfortunately, the King's (equally humor-deprived) guards were at hand, drinking quietly at another table, and heard the boasting man. When the boasting man woke up the next morning, with a hangover, he was in the castle jail.

When they drug him in front the king, the boast man was asked to "clarify" his remarks. The boasting man, quaking in his boots, could not deny that he had, indeed, coveted the King's horse. For this, he was sentenced to death by beheading.

The boasting man blanched and swallowed, then bravely spoke up again. "My Lord, it is not just that I should be punished for this, for it is a crime that every subject in your kingdom would be guilty of. Everyone would want a horse that sang!"

The king had to admit that this was logical and true - " - leaving aside some tone-deaf louts like my son-in-law. But we are not talking about a horse that sings, you idiot. We are talking about *my* horse."

"But my Lord, it *could* sing, if it only had the right trainer."

"For which I have only your word, and you are not in a position to be trusted."

"Let me offer more conclusive proof, then, my Lord."

"What, you will teach the horse to sing?"

"I swear, my lord, that if you grant me a year to instruct the horse, by the end of that term I shall have taught it to sing."

And so it was decided. The boasting man was assigned the horse ("assigned, not given, you lout") and a small stipend to provide for it, and strict instructions to not leave the kingdom proper ("Not beyond the second mountain range, and don't think we won't be keeping track of you.")

If at the end of the year, the man did not re-appear before the king - with a singing horse - his life was forfeit, plus all his land and crops.

As the boasting man was riding out the city gates (practicing his scales as he went) one of his closest friends came up to him, weeping.

"Why the long face, my friend? Is it not a beautiful day?"

"But, but, I heard the news! The king, the beheading, only a year -"

"Oh, be off with you! Anything can happen in a year. The king might die. The horse might die. *I* might die. And who knows? In a year, perhaps the horse might learn to sing!"

da-dum! The end.

(I told this story first, years back, on the TXF OS board.)

- hg

Shark, meet pole-vaulter.

I'm more afraid of BSG pulling an "X-files" than any elasmobranch-oid track-and-field exercises. That said:

Who says that the cure is a cure, and not a remission, and very temporary one at that, sans continual re-infusions of the hybrid blood.

Also, and this is my own horrid awareness of human nature and 20th C history, but when word percolates through the fleet of what human-cylon hybrid blood is capable of achieving, it's not Our Sharon who has to worry. After all, she's (more or less) safely under Adama's lock-and-key.

It's the next cylon they find, the one that, rumor has it, is running loose after killing Cain.