?

Log in

No account? Create an account
Cartagia the Mad- by tiamatschild

Ship Meme Answers, Part One

Look, ma! Content!

Here are five of the B5 requests. They spoil show canon- and in some cases, novel canon- so new viewers beware! And, uh, I exceed the 100 word limit on a few. Whoops. *g*



Vir & Lennier

This is one of those relationships I definitely wish had been explored more in canon, not simply for its cute factor, but for the study in contrasts it could’ve provided. Vir and Lennier are both adorable, young diplomatic attaches brought together by the burdens of serving ambassadors who are chosen by opposing “gods;” both gradually lose their innocence over the course of Babylon 5’s epic story. But while Vir survives his loss of innocence and becomes a stronger, if sadder, man, Lennier is shattered by his own loss and, when last we see him in canon, he disappears in shame. Whether it’s cultural or dispositional- or a little of both- Vir proves to be better equipped to assimilate the dark things he learns about himself and others into his own naturally sunny, optimistic personality.

Still, all seriousness aside, I would love to plop these two into the middle of an amusement park like Disney World and watch the lighter differences in personality play themselves out. Lennier, as an introverted academic, would spend much of the time politely bearing Vir’s bubbly excitement and contemplating the cultural significance of dressing up in a giant mouse suit. Vir, as a young concrete sensualist in the most charming aspect of the Centauri tradition, would overindulge on ice cream cones and cotton candy, would beg Lennier for pictures with Goofy, and would get sick on a roller coaster (“But it tasted so good going down!”)- and then the next day, he’ll want to do it again. *g*

And I have so much more I could say, but I’ve more than doubled the stipulated word count. *g*





Sheridan/Delenn

As I said to fiverly, I feel pretty neutral about this canon relationship. There’s no great hostility, but there’s no great love either, I think because I find one character in the pairing (Delenn) to be vastly more interesting than the other (Sheridan).

Naturally, with my love for conflict, my favorite Sheridan/Delenn moment takes place in Z’Ha’Dum, when their burgeoning romantic relationship runs smack into the consequences of Delenn’s faith in the Vorlons. “You would’ve denied me the opportunity to make that choice!” The scene here reveals an ideological difference between Delenn and Sheridan that threatens the health of the aforementioned new relationship. Delenn has, in general, wholly accepted the guidance of the Vorlons up to this point. Sheridan, meanwhile, resents being led without knowing all the facts. Fascinating. Very fascinating. And deserving of much fic.





Timov/Londo

Ah, yes- the accepted heterosexual stand-in for Londo/G’Kar.

What can I say? Timov rocks. Her sharp wit and blistering honesty make her a worthy match for Londo, who is equally clever, but more freewheeling and devious. Timov thinks Londo is a fool- and tells him so constantly. Londo thinks Timov is frigid and over-critical- hence his dubbing her “Famine.” And yet, by all the gods, they love each other. Timov is the one wife Londo trusts. That’s the main reason he keeps her, though the chance to continuing arguing and snarking with his mate is certainly a delightful bonus. Timov, meanwhile, is often touched by Londo in spite of herself. Watch her reaction when Londo kisses her hand at the end of Soul Mates- she is charmed.

As with Londo/G’Kar, Timov/Londo is a relationship that can be, strangely, good for both parties. But alas, like all Londo ships, it is ultimately caught up in Londo’s great tragedy. It burns when, in the novels, Londo forces Empress Timov into exile for her own good.





Keeper/Londo (or: Reason One Why We Need a Non-Consensual Relationship Symbol)

There needs to be a symbol denoting non-consensual sexual undertones. Because while my immediate reaction to E jokingly suggesting this pairing was to run screaming into the woods, on second thought, my sick, twisted little brain took it up as a challenge, and suddenly I found it less hard to imagine the Keeper- and by extension, the Drakh Entire- gleaning some clinical pleasure out of absorbing sexual arousal in Londo. With Timov in the palace in the first years of Londo’s reign, the Keeper would certainly have plenty of opportunity to soak things in. Ew! Ew! Bad brain! No biscuit!





Cartagia/Londo (or: Reason Two)

Okay, no one requested this one. I just decided spontaneously to do it after discussions with E. *g*

Yes, I believe Cartagia is functionally bisexual at the very least, and yes, I do believe he has a serious crush on Londo. He beheads his opponents, certainly, but he is also vexed and bored by wheedling sycophants. Londo adeptly walks the tightrope between both factions, and oh, you can see how that arouses the mad emperor! Cartagia repeatedly proclaims his adoration for Londo and even goes to the trouble of giving him a gift. How thoughtful. I think Londo would’ve preferred flowers- if the very idea of being romanced by Cartagia didn’t put a sickening lump in the pit of his stomach.



More Babylon 5, some Farscape, and a revisit of Boston Public to come later...

Comments

I loved your insight. The Londo/Keeper one had me totally guffawing. Good stuff.

Ok, since I just met you and cuz I don't know, what TV shows do you watch? What shows are you really into? Currently airing or finished shows count. Are you open to suggestions? I really think you'd like Firefly.
I loved your insight.

Thanks! *g*

What shows are you really into? Currently airing or finished shows count. Are you open to suggestions? I really think you'd like Firefly.

My current fandoms? Babylon 5 is my One True FandomTM, but I also enjoy Farscape (Stark! Staaaark!), Blake's 7 (I've seen one and half seasons of B7 so far, and Vila Restal is my baby), Trek (particularly DS9), and, to a lesser extent, House, MD. And yes- I've seen a few episodes of Firefly and have really liked the show so far. In fact, I plan on finishing the set before ConneXions this coming weekend. ;)
Oh, yes, finish Firefly. I luurve that show. Nathan Fillion (Capt. Mal) is so damn hot. My favorite is River because she's crazy and vulnerable, because her brother is the only thing she has in the verse, and she's got powers she doesn't understand. TIt's like she's an exaggerated manifestation of how I feel internally. Except for the crazy part. That's totally me. Sometimes. ;)

The look and feel and language in Firefly is so unique to its genre. I think it sets a new precedent for Sci-Fi. And because the costumes are a blend of old west and ethnic cultures, the show is timeless. I bet in 20 years people won't be watching the DVDs thinking, oh man, the close are so outdated! Not like we do now with old 80's shows being released.

Ah, but enough of my Firefly squeeing. It's a show very close to my heart. And speaking of close to my heart, someday you must try Buffy. It's not straight sci-fi, it's a blend of sci-fi, fantasy, horror, drama, and comedy. The entire season is a complete story with character development and addictive plot-twisty goodness. The way you feel about Babylon 5 is the way I feel about Buffy. It's my One True Fandom (well, along with its spin-off, Angel). I recommend it. Even if you have seen an episode or 3 and you don't think you'll like it. Everyone I know who's become hooked on the show either used to scoff at it or just didn't think they'd love it as much as they did. And if you ever do watch Buffy, you gotta start at the beginning.

Ok, that's enough of my QTA ranting. Most of your shows I've never seen. Farscape is next on my list of shows to watch. I have seen Star Trek though, mostly TNG and Voyager. I did see sporadic episodes of DS9, and have always wanted to start from the beginning. I liked what I saw, I was just really confused because I wasn't watching it chronologically.

Back in the day, before I became hooked on story-arc TV, I loved TNG. I love Picard and Troi. Picard was my favorite. He's so sexy. I just think that if I were to rewatch the series I'd get bored because the episodes are so stand-alone-y and the characters barely change much.

The shows I'm into now are Buffy, Angel, Firefly (which I mentioned), and those are my main shows. I don't get ultra-obsessive over many others. But some that come close are Wonderfalls, Freaks and Geeks, Lost, Alias, Babylon 5, Joan of Arcadia, and The Shield. Honorable mentions go to Gilmore Girls, Veronica Mars, which I only saw 5 episodes of, but really really can't wait for the DVDs, and Six Feet Under.

The shows with the most potential were Freaks and Geeks and Wonderfalls. If they had survived, they would have become very obsessable.

Ok, NOW I'm done with my spiel. Btw, what is ConneXions?
ConneXions is a small, local multimedia slash convention. Last night, I was looking at the discussion panel schedule and noted that we were slated to talk a great deal about Firefly. So, uh, yeah, I should probably finish watching it right now so I can play too. ;)

(One thing you'll find out about me is that I always have a huge pile of Things to WatchTM in my room and never enough time to get through them all. O_o I started Firefly in January, for Great Maker's sake. *spanks self*)

My favorite is River because she's crazy and vulnerable, because her brother is the only thing she has in the verse, and she's got powers she doesn't understand.

Yes. As I noted here, I predict that Simon and River will be my babies by the time I'm done. I also think Kaylee is cute. as. a. button.

I bet in 20 years people won't be watching the DVDs thinking, oh man, the clothes are so outdated! Not like we do now with old 80's shows being released.

Or 70's British camp sci-fi. Man, do I spend a lot of time giggling over the costumes on Blake's 7. Except for Servalan's costumes, because they just rock.

Speaking of 80's shows being released on DVD, I want St. Elsewhere to be released on DVD, damn it! [/random]

And speaking of close to my heart, someday you must try Buffy.

As a matter of fact, it is sitting in my que right now. ;) The three scattered episodes I've seen intrigued me and motivated me to see the whole thing from beginning to end.

Farscape is next on my list of shows to watch.

I tell people that Farscape is something of an acquired taste. *g* It is extraordinarily odd, but if you have an open mind (and don't mind seeing bodily fluids and Muppet sex), oh, man, you will be pulled in. And the Muppets will make you cry.

I did see sporadic episodes of DS9, and have always wanted to start from the beginning.

Oh, do! DS9 is the most gorgeous Trek there ever was- not to mention the darkest. The writers for DS9 were the only Trek writers (at the time) with the stones to risk having the heroes do Very Bad ThingsTM, like annihilate an entire planet's atmosphere- or cook up a lie to build a crucial alliance. I also like virtually all the characters, and while DS9's continuity isn't quite as divine as B5's, if you watch it from beginning to end, you will be rewarded.

Just to give you an idea how much I like DS9, Battlestar Galactica: 2003 is sitting in my que right now because Ron Moore, one of DS9's writers, is the brain behind it. I'm willing to watch anything conceived by Ron Moore.

(However, if you really want to see DS9 love in it's most pure form, you need to talk to my little brother. Just as B5 is my One True FandomTM, DS9 is his.)

Back in the day, before I became hooked on story-arc TV, I loved TNG. I love Picard and Troi. Picard was my favorite. He's so sexy. I just think that if I were to rewatch the series I'd get bored because the episodes are so stand-alone-y and the characters barely change much.

That's exactly how I feel about TNG, although Picard, Crusher and Data were my favorites back in the day. Nowadays, I like it fine and will watch and enjoy it if it's on and I'm not doing anything in particular, but it's not a show I drop everything to watch. Same goes for Stargate SG-1. I like SG-1. I like the characters. But the rabid, obsessive love is not there.




You and I would totally get along. How did you know? ;)

I'm delighted that you are interested in Buffy. I have to recommend that you watch every episode in order, never skip an episode, and avoid spoilers like the plague. The first season is a bit shaky, and definitely campy and hokey in parts. You know the drill: bad special effects, hokey monsters, etc. But it gets so much better in quality during the second season and just improves from there.

I tell people that Farscape is something of an acquired taste. *g* It is extraordinarily odd, but if you have an open mind (and don't mind seeing bodily fluids and Muppet sex), oh, man, you will be pulled in. And the Muppets will make you cry.

My older brother recommended Farscape to me, and he knows my tastes pretty well. I heard that it's a character-driven show, yes? I like that. The characters are so much more interesting than the plots. I like plots that allow the characters to show us who they are, and shine. And I'm a sucker for heartbreak. I love star-crossed lovers, especially if they are so Meant To Be and yet they can't possibly be together. I ache for that stuff. I gather that's what Farscape is like, yes?

DS9 is the most gorgeous Trek there ever was- not to mention the darkest. The writers for DS9 were the only Trek writers (at the time) with the stones to risk having the heroes do Very Bad ThingsTM, like annihilate an entire planet's atmosphere- or cook up a lie to build a crucial alliance.

I love characters that are shades of grey in the Good/Evil spectrum. I was in love with a vampire for 5 seasons. Some of my favorite charactes are villians who are slightly vulnerable. And I don't like heroes that are perfect. My favorite heroes fucked up sometimes and did horrible things. Allowing characters to struggle with their dark side makes them so much more layered than a straight up White Hat. Delenn comes to mind as someone who struck me as perfectly good, and after three seasons of that I bored of her. I actually was a John/Delenn shipper in seasons 2 and 3. In 4 and 5, especially when they got married, they were no longer compelling to me.

Just to give you an idea how much I like DS9, Battlestar Galactica: 2003 is sitting in my que right now because Ron Moore, one of DS9's writers, is the brain behind it. I'm willing to watch anything conceived by Ron Moore.

That's how I feel about Joss Whedon, the creator of Buffy, Angel, and Firefly. I will follow that guy to hell and back. I also have favorite Buffy and Angel writers, and I'm always willing to check out the projects they are working on.

That ConneXion con sounds fabulous. I would totally go to one of those. We don't get things like that here. It's as if Portland Oregon isn't even on the map. We don't get cons or ANYTHING. Waaaaa. I'm so deprived.

And speaking of Simon and River, they are one of my ships. They have a beautiful love. While some S/R shippers (also called CSI shipers -- CSI: Crazy Space Incest) ship them romantically, my S/R ship is platonic, but with romantic metaphor. If you watch their scenes closely, you'll see what I mean. And you'll definitely see what I mean when you watch the Our Mrs. Reynolds deleted scene. Apparently, Joss Whedon ships them too. He said so at a Firefly panel.

Oh, I guess I should stop yapping about fandom for now. Me hungy. I enjoyed chatting with you. :)



The characters are so much more interesting than the plots. I like plots that allow the characters to show us who they are, and shine.

Word.

And I'm a sucker for heartbreak. I love star-crossed lovers, especially if they are so Meant To Be and yet they can't possibly be together. I ache for that stuff. I gather that's what Farscape is like, yes?

Without spoiling you: Yes. Yes, those themes are in there. *g*

Allowing characters to struggle with their dark side makes them so much more layered than a straight up White Hat.

Which is why I think Londo Mollari is one of the most beautifully written characters in science fiction.

Delenn comes to mind as someone who struck me as perfectly good, and after three seasons of that I bored of her.

Ah, see, I actually believe Delenn and Londo have not a little in common. Remember that she too started a genocidal war with a word. The difference lies in how JMS presents both wars. The Earth-Minbari War is relentlessly presented as a matter of history. We see the greater moments in flashbacks, but we get no sense of the journey Delenn took between calling for Human blood and regretting the cost of the war and her role in starting it. The Narn-Centauri War, on the other hand, is a matter of the present. We see every gory detail of Londo's fall, then are presented with an equally detailed picture of his regret and eventual atonement. That's why, I think, Delenn understands Londo on a level not many others do (besides G'Kar and Vir) and seems rather invested in redeeming him in some way. Consider how quickly she sees through Londo in their scene together in A Day in the Strife- "I think maybe you need [Vir]." Consider what she says to Londo in Ceremonies of Light and Dark- that as she contemplated the ceremony of rebirth, Londo was the individual she first thought of as being in need of it. (Londo, of course, was in no mood for her Minbari ceremony.) Consider how grieved she was at Londo's ultimate fate.

I think you're right that Delenn comes across as "too good" during the series proper. That's because, when the show begins, she is almost at the end of her journey (enduring the transformation in the chrysalis being the start of the final leg). Her not too distant past, though... it fascinates me. And puts me in a mood for some good Londo & Delenn fic.

I agree, though, that Sheridan and Delenn as a couple ceased being interesting after their marriage.

And speaking of Simon and River, they are one of my ships. They have a beautiful love. While some S/R shippers (also called CSI shipers -- CSI: Crazy Space Incest) ship them romantically, my S/R ship is platonic, but with romantic metaphor. If you watch their scenes closely, you'll see what I mean.

I think I might know a little of what you mean. Londo & Vir is my favorite B5 ship. It is utterly platonic and familial, but incredibly layered and intimate.

Oh, I guess I should stop yapping about fandom for now.

Oh, one should never stop yapping about fandom!



Oh, I never stop yapping for long. :D

I have just watched "Safe."

Simon and River are now officially my babies.

Re: I have just watched "Safe."

Yup. That's the definitive Simon/River episode. Well, one of them. The look on Simon's face when he got up on that post with her and said, "Light it." with the look of solid resolution on his face, along with grief and remorse. It was as if his look was saying goodbye, and he knew they were going to die. That he would rather die with River, than be on this earth without her. *weep* I love them so much.

Sean Maher is an amazing actor. He's the kind of actor I like: subtle and restrained. Evoking so much complex emotion in a look. It's like Simon is holding back his passion, and when it's finally released, WOW. He reminds me of Alexis Denisof, who amazed Angel fans with his powerful story arc, in the acting and the character. I have a huge crush on Denisof, and his character Wesley. Right now I crush on Nathan Fillion more, just because he's such a gruff stud. Sexy stuff. But Simon's my boyfriend. Forever and Ever. Unless Wesley has me over for tea or something.

And oh, River. She is totally me. She pretty much acts out what I've felt inside for most of my life. That girl's got some crazy power on her, that's for sure.

Let me know what you think of the other episodes. I love the next one after Safe. They just keep getting better. My favorite episode is the last one.

Now I have the urge to run off and make a Simon/River icon.

My favorite quote from Safe:

River: Little soul, big world. Eat, sleep and eat. Many souls.
Mal: Cattle on the ship three weeks, she don't go near 'em. Suddenly we're on Jiangyin, and she's got a driving need to commune with the beasts.
River: They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.
Mal: Is it bad that what she said made perfect sense to me?

Re: I have just watched "Safe."

Ok, that wasn't coherent at all. Heh.

Re: I have just watched "Safe."

I'll have a general Firefly reaction post up in a few days once I've had a chance to mull. ;)

Re: I have just watched "Safe."

What, you finished it already? ;)

Re: I have just watched "Safe."

No, I mean a reaction post for the first few episodes. ;) Unfortunately, sleep won out last night. It's kind of annoying, that sleep.

Re: I have just watched "Safe."

Ah. I wouldn't know about that lately. Insomnia has hit me hard. I am headed to bed soon though. Didn't I say that 6 hours ago? Yeah. Sucky.
Alright in light of recent additions to my muses.. I must say that the Cartagia/Londo thing really does hell on a mind that is trying to handle both the Emperor and Adira... Thank you for the unwanted images.. I think I will join Londo on the idea of a "Sickening lump" in ones stomach.

As to the Keeper in the begining of the Book series it actually says that the Drakh is interested in Londo's sexual fantasies..again I think I am unnerved..

***Runs off to pound head against the wall.***
My philosophy is: Why suffer in silence with these dark imaginings when I can inflict them on an unsuspecting public? *eg*
Is that encouragement or a request? *g*
It's a warning- if you're reading my journal, you're going to see some pretty weird ideas. Take heart, though. Some of them are funny crack instead of disturbing crack. *g*